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	<title>Comments on: Sydney Airport passes the buck</title>
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	<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/</link>
	<description>All publication is a political act. All communication is propaganda. All art is pornography. All business is personal. All hail Eris. Vive les poissons rouges sauvages!</description>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15460</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15460</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@csirac2:&lt;/strong&gt; Thank you for the detailed explanation! A friend who also knows about aviation communications and navigation aids (RAAF background) has speculated about various interference sources, but you seem to have identified the most likely culprits.

I guess that&#039;s all I expected Airservices Australia to do too -- though hey, they can always come and re-work my WLAN. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@csirac2:</strong> Thank you for the detailed explanation! A friend who also knows about aviation communications and navigation aids (RAAF background) has speculated about various interference sources, but you seem to have identified the most likely culprits.</p>
<p>I guess that&#8217;s all I expected Airservices Australia to do too &#8212; though hey, they can always come and re-work my WLAN. <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: csirac2</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15453</link>
		<dc:creator>csirac2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15453</guid>
		<description>I meant to elaborate. At a guess, it could be the GS on 1.007GHz that&#039;s giving you grief. Even though it&#039;s not at 2.4GHz, considering it&#039;s a hefty 150 watts output, if you were close enough in proximity (and polarisation, lay of the land etc. all conspires against you) it may be close enough to the frequency of an IF (intermediate frequency) stage or harmonic thereof used in your WLAN gear&#039;s radio circuitry to cause these problems.

In other words, your cheap wireless gear just isn&#039;t able to cope with the outside noise it&#039;s supposed to.

Now, back to job hunting. I was a Systems Engineer myself, actually, but not entirely a software/IT one :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to elaborate. At a guess, it could be the GS on 1.007GHz that&#8217;s giving you grief. Even though it&#8217;s not at 2.4GHz, considering it&#8217;s a hefty 150 watts output, if you were close enough in proximity (and polarisation, lay of the land etc. all conspires against you) it may be close enough to the frequency of an IF (intermediate frequency) stage or harmonic thereof used in your WLAN gear&#8217;s radio circuitry to cause these problems.</p>
<p>In other words, your cheap wireless gear just isn&#8217;t able to cope with the outside noise it&#8217;s supposed to.</p>
<p>Now, back to job hunting. I was a Systems Engineer myself, actually, but not entirely a software/IT one <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: csirac2</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15452</link>
		<dc:creator>csirac2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15452</guid>
		<description>By &quot;try a different unlicensed band&quot;, I meant try 5GHz WLAN gear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;try a different unlicensed band&#8221;, I meant try 5GHz WLAN gear.</p>
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		<title>By: csirac2</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15451</link>
		<dc:creator>csirac2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15451</guid>
		<description>Then this response seems entirely adequate, yes?

At:
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_286

You see that aircraft transmit in the 5-25 watt range on these frequencies, roughly speaking:

Voice comms: ~120MHz
DME, ACAS: ~1.1GHz
Radio Altimeter: ~4.3GHz
Weather Radar: ~5.4GHz, ~9.4GHz
Doppler Radar: ~8.8GHz, ~13.3GHz

Now, using the database at:
http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/register_search.main_page

We can see what the airport itself is doing.

Transmit power is specified as the pX (peak), pY (mean) or pZ (carrier) power in watts, depending on the nature/modulation of the signal being broadcast.

Some examples:

Designator - Freq - Description - Transmit Power
7M00F9W - 10.565GHz - MSB Lead Light Runway 34l SYDNEY AIRPORT - 0.4pY
18K5A9A - 332.0MHz - Glidepath/DME Runway 34R SYDNEY AIRPORT - 5pX
18K5A9A - 330.8MHz - Localiser Runway 16L SYDNEY AIRPORT - 5pX
12K5A9A - 110.9MHz - Localiser Runway 16L SYDNEY AIRPORT - 15pX
12K5A9A - 109.5MHz - Localiser Runway 16R SYDNEY AIRPORT - 25pZ
500KP0N - 991.0MHz - Dmei Runway 34 Right SYDNEY AIRPORT - 150pZ
500KP0N - 1.007GHz - Glidepath/DME Runway 16L SYDNEY AIRPORT - 150pZ
14M0P0N - 2.767GHz - Sydney Terminal Approach Radar SYDNEY AIRPORT - 600,000pX

As you can see, the approach radar is on 2.767GHz, and transmitting at 600,000 watts. Considering your 2.4GHz gear is probably dissipating 30-100mW into its antenna, that&#039;s one hell of a noise source.

It&#039;s been years since I was savvy with this stuff, but if I recall correctly, the law is written such that emergency and infrastructure broadcast licenses will always stomp all over users of unlicensed bands wherever deemed necessary.

It&#039;s a fact of life. The unlicensed bands are there for convenience for citizens to enjoy wherever possible, but in this imperfect world, a noise free 2.4GHz band is not a right that you have.

So, you&#039;re screwed for 2.4GHz. Possible solutions: use a different unlicensed band or go the Telstra NextG route (850MHz). Unfortunately, this is close the Glideslope frequency of 1007MHz (for 16L), and is transmitting at 150 Watts, not to be sneezed at.

As Telstra actually paid for a broadcast license, they have some rights that a lowly citizen on the unlicensed bands do not, and may be interested in sorting out the interference problem with you and ASA. Or not.

The buck ultimately lies between you and Telstra, as far as I can tell.

I&#039;m really not sure at all what you expect Air Services to do for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then this response seems entirely adequate, yes?</p>
<p>At:<br />
<a href="http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_286" >http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_286</a></p>
<p>You see that aircraft transmit in the 5-25 watt range on these frequencies, roughly speaking:</p>
<p>Voice comms: ~120MHz<br />
DME, ACAS: ~1.1GHz<br />
Radio Altimeter: ~4.3GHz<br />
Weather Radar: ~5.4GHz, ~9.4GHz<br />
Doppler Radar: ~8.8GHz, ~13.3GHz</p>
<p>Now, using the database at:<br />
<a href="http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/register_search.main_page" >http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/register_search.main_page</a></p>
<p>We can see what the airport itself is doing.</p>
<p>Transmit power is specified as the pX (peak), pY (mean) or pZ (carrier) power in watts, depending on the nature/modulation of the signal being broadcast.</p>
<p>Some examples:</p>
<p>Designator &#8211; Freq &#8211; Description &#8211; Transmit Power<br />
7M00F9W &#8211; 10.565GHz &#8211; MSB Lead Light Runway 34l SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 0.4pY<br />
18K5A9A &#8211; 332.0MHz &#8211; Glidepath/DME Runway 34R SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 5pX<br />
18K5A9A &#8211; 330.8MHz &#8211; Localiser Runway 16L SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 5pX<br />
12K5A9A &#8211; 110.9MHz &#8211; Localiser Runway 16L SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 15pX<br />
12K5A9A &#8211; 109.5MHz &#8211; Localiser Runway 16R SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 25pZ<br />
500KP0N &#8211; 991.0MHz &#8211; Dmei Runway 34 Right SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 150pZ<br />
500KP0N &#8211; 1.007GHz &#8211; Glidepath/DME Runway 16L SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 150pZ<br />
14M0P0N &#8211; 2.767GHz &#8211; Sydney Terminal Approach Radar SYDNEY AIRPORT &#8211; 600,000pX</p>
<p>As you can see, the approach radar is on 2.767GHz, and transmitting at 600,000 watts. Considering your 2.4GHz gear is probably dissipating 30-100mW into its antenna, that&#8217;s one hell of a noise source.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been years since I was savvy with this stuff, but if I recall correctly, the law is written such that emergency and infrastructure broadcast licenses will always stomp all over users of unlicensed bands wherever deemed necessary.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a fact of life. The unlicensed bands are there for convenience for citizens to enjoy wherever possible, but in this imperfect world, a noise free 2.4GHz band is not a right that you have.</p>
<p>So, you&#8217;re screwed for 2.4GHz. Possible solutions: use a different unlicensed band or go the Telstra NextG route (850MHz). Unfortunately, this is close the Glideslope frequency of 1007MHz (for 16L), and is transmitting at 150 Watts, not to be sneezed at.</p>
<p>As Telstra actually paid for a broadcast license, they have some rights that a lowly citizen on the unlicensed bands do not, and may be interested in sorting out the interference problem with you and ASA. Or not.</p>
<p>The buck ultimately lies between you and Telstra, as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really not sure at all what you expect Air Services to do for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15287</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15287</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Snif:&lt;/strong&gt; There is indeed an argument which says I should be aware that Airservices Australia runs the airside stuff while Sydney Airport runs the groundside.

That argument becomes stronger when I reveal that for two years I actually worked for what was then the Department of Transport / Transport Australia / Department of Aviation. One year was even in the Engineering Branch -- the specific branch which installed and maintained all the electronic gadgetry of which I complain.

(The other year was in Staff Development, where I learnt a &lt;em&gt;lot&lt;/em&gt; about people and organisations.)

Nevertheless, as a punter... I mean, as a general member of the public, it&#039;s not my job to keep track of the various nefarious corporate connections between the nefarious various bits of the privatised aviation industry. My problem is connected with &quot;the airport&quot;, so I approach &quot;the airport&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Snif:</strong> There is indeed an argument which says I should be aware that Airservices Australia runs the airside stuff while Sydney Airport runs the groundside.</p>
<p>That argument becomes stronger when I reveal that for two years I actually worked for what was then the Department of Transport / Transport Australia / Department of Aviation. One year was even in the Engineering Branch &#8212; the specific branch which installed and maintained all the electronic gadgetry of which I complain.</p>
<p>(The other year was in Staff Development, where I learnt a <em>lot</em> about people and organisations.)</p>
<p>Nevertheless, as a punter&#8230; I mean, as a general member of the public, it&#8217;s not my job to keep track of the various nefarious corporate connections between the nefarious various bits of the privatised aviation industry. My problem is connected with &#8220;the airport&#8221;, so I approach &#8220;the airport&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Snif</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15285</link>
		<dc:creator>Snif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15285</guid>
		<description>&quot;More specifically, its website indicates

As in, we have no idea ourselves what services they provide, we had to check their website to find out?&quot;




We-e-e-ll, in their defence, it could be interpreted as &quot;you could have looked this up yourself, but here it is in case you don&#039;t believe us.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;More specifically, its website indicates</p>
<p>As in, we have no idea ourselves what services they provide, we had to check their website to find out?&#8221;</p>
<p>We-e-e-ll, in their defence, it could be interpreted as &#8220;you could have looked this up yourself, but here it is in case you don&#8217;t believe us.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15281</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15281</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@James Polley:&lt;/strong&gt; Comment-preview and &quot;Comments feed for this article&quot; are working just fine for me. Firefox version whatever-is-currently-shiny-bright on OS X. Don&#039;t get snarky, do a proper, professional fault report. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@James Polley:</strong> Comment-preview and &#8220;Comments feed for this article&#8221; are working just fine for me. Firefox version whatever-is-currently-shiny-bright on OS X. Don&#8217;t get snarky, do a proper, professional fault report. <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James Polley</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/enmore/sydney-airport-passes-the-buck/#comment-15279</link>
		<dc:creator>James Polley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=3180#comment-15279</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;More specifically, its website indicates &lt;/blockquote&gt;

As in, we have no idea ourselves what services they provide, we had to check their website to find out?

(Where is your &quot;preview&quot; option for comments? Where is your &quot;Follow comments via email&quot; button?  subscribe-to-comments plugin is your friend!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>More specifically, its website indicates </p></blockquote>
<p>As in, we have no idea ourselves what services they provide, we had to check their website to find out?</p>
<p>(Where is your &#8220;preview&#8221; option for comments? Where is your &#8220;Follow comments via email&#8221; button?  subscribe-to-comments plugin is your friend!)</p>
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