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	<title>Comments on: Has Google Trends data made me look a goose?</title>
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	<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/</link>
	<description>All publication is a political act. All communication is propaganda. All art is pornography. All business is personal. All hail Eris. Vive les poissons rouges sauvages!</description>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30967</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30967</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a couple follow-ups over in &lt;em&gt;Crikey&lt;/em&gt;&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/11/27/liberals-in-chaos-proves-politics-is-failing-us/&quot;&gt;Comments, Corrections, Clarification and C*ck-ups&lt;/a&gt; column. Scroll down past all the &quot;Liberals in turmoil&quot; stuff.

&lt;strong&gt;@Anthony:&lt;/strong&gt; Isn&#039;t looking for conclusions without data, or despite the data, a bit like &quot;Iraq has weapons of mass destruction&quot;? ;)

That said, you do have a point. Even if all of the Google Trends data has a systematic error which means those news sites&#039; traffic figures are going up, it also means that Facebook and Twitter&#039;s are rising even faster than the graphs show. That means people&#039;s time spent would be shifting to social networking sites and away from news sites, though within a growing total audience.

I&#039;d still like actual data to support that theory though.

I&#039;m not so fussed by the old &quot;Who do you know who&#039;s ever been in the TV ratings?&quot; chestnut. You only need a couple thousand people to get a reasonably representative sample. As this &lt;a href=&quot;http://americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html&quot;&gt;margin of error calculator&lt;/a&gt; shows, in Sydney&#039;s population of 4 million, for instance, a sample of 3000 people gives you a MOE of 1.79 percentage points with standard 95% confidence.

That said, I&#039;ve seen a radio presenter get upset by an audience drop of one percentage point between ratings surveys. No matter how much I or the head of audience research tried to convince him, he simply wouldn&#039;t accept that it was probably statistical noise.

I&#039;ve also seen this fall apart when people try to analyse demographic slices within this sample, forgetting that the MOE then relates not to the total sample and population sizes, but to the size of that individual slice of 26 to 30-year-old left-handed lesbians.

&lt;strong&gt;@yewenyi:&lt;/strong&gt; I think there&#039;s currently more theories about Rupert&#039;s motives than atoms in the Sun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a couple follow-ups over in <em>Crikey</em>&#8217;s <a href="http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/11/27/liberals-in-chaos-proves-politics-is-failing-us/">Comments, Corrections, Clarification and C*ck-ups</a> column. Scroll down past all the &#8220;Liberals in turmoil&#8221; stuff.</p>
<p><strong>@Anthony:</strong> Isn&#8217;t looking for conclusions without data, or despite the data, a bit like &#8220;Iraq has weapons of mass destruction&#8221;? <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That said, you do have a point. Even if all of the Google Trends data has a systematic error which means those news sites&#8217; traffic figures are going up, it also means that Facebook and Twitter&#8217;s are rising even faster than the graphs show. That means people&#8217;s time spent would be shifting to social networking sites and away from news sites, though within a growing total audience.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d still like actual data to support that theory though.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so fussed by the old &#8220;Who do you know who&#8217;s ever been in the TV ratings?&#8221; chestnut. You only need a couple thousand people to get a reasonably representative sample. As this <a href="http://americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html">margin of error calculator</a> shows, in Sydney&#8217;s population of 4 million, for instance, a sample of 3000 people gives you a MOE of 1.79 percentage points with standard 95% confidence.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;ve seen a radio presenter get upset by an audience drop of one percentage point between ratings surveys. No matter how much I or the head of audience research tried to convince him, he simply wouldn&#8217;t accept that it was probably statistical noise.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also seen this fall apart when people try to analyse demographic slices within this sample, forgetting that the MOE then relates not to the total sample and population sizes, but to the size of that individual slice of 26 to 30-year-old left-handed lesbians.</p>
<p><strong>@yewenyi:</strong> I think there&#8217;s currently more theories about Rupert&#8217;s motives than atoms in the Sun.</p>
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		<title>By: yewenyi</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30966</link>
		<dc:creator>yewenyi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30966</guid>
		<description>Murdoch is jumping up and down and making a fool of himself. He does not do that when he does not need to. So maybe there is an issue for their sites. Though it could just be they are not as profitable as they would like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murdoch is jumping up and down and making a fool of himself. He does not do that when he does not need to. So maybe there is an issue for their sites. Though it could just be they are not as profitable as they would like.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30958</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30958</guid>
		<description>i still think your conclusion may still have validity, despite an absence of hard data.

just because newspaper web stat graphs are going up (or down for that matter), does not mean they&#039;re changing at a rate commensurate with, well, with anything - be it changes in website viewing behaviour, nor a migration of eyeballs from paper to web.

jokes about employees checking their Facebook every 6.5 minutes might sound funny, but they have a basis in reality.

dammit we just need better numbers!  and as pointed out on other comments, there&#039;s those who have various cookie- &amp;/or ad- &amp;/or script-blocking in place, shared IPs &amp; proxies, etc.

but then, how is this any different to the scattergun shambles that&#039;s been &quot;ratings&quot; and &quot;readership&quot; numbers in old-media since year dot?  i asked this question of all my friends on Facebook just a year ago: &quot;Who&#039;s ever taken part in an TV ratings survey?&quot;.  1 couple nearly 10 years ago *blank stare*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i still think your conclusion may still have validity, despite an absence of hard data.</p>
<p>just because newspaper web stat graphs are going up (or down for that matter), does not mean they&#8217;re changing at a rate commensurate with, well, with anything &#8211; be it changes in website viewing behaviour, nor a migration of eyeballs from paper to web.</p>
<p>jokes about employees checking their Facebook every 6.5 minutes might sound funny, but they have a basis in reality.</p>
<p>dammit we just need better numbers!  and as pointed out on other comments, there&#8217;s those who have various cookie- &amp;/or ad- &amp;/or script-blocking in place, shared IPs &amp; proxies, etc.</p>
<p>but then, how is this any different to the scattergun shambles that&#8217;s been &#8220;ratings&#8221; and &#8220;readership&#8221; numbers in old-media since year dot?  i asked this question of all my friends on Facebook just a year ago: &#8220;Who&#8217;s ever taken part in an TV ratings survey?&#8221;.  1 couple nearly 10 years ago *blank stare*</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30954</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30954</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@glengyron:&lt;/strong&gt; As long as the bullshit is expressed as a number, and preferably a number that&#039;s bigger for you than for your competitors, it doesn&#039;t really matter what the number is nor how it was generated.

See also in &lt;em&gt;mUmBRELLA&lt;/em&gt; today, &lt;a href=&quot;http://mumbrella.com.au/in-the-punch-vs-national-times-debate-the-missing-metric-is-personality-12700&quot;&gt;In &lt;em&gt;The Punch&lt;/em&gt; vs &lt;em&gt;National Times&lt;/em&gt; debate, the missing metric is personality&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;strong&gt;@Paul:&lt;/strong&gt; Hah! Yes, the stats provided by ninemsn showed who as the topmost line on the chart? ninemsn of course.

Still, my critics have been relatively gracious. I won&#039;t pick on them too much.

&lt;strong&gt;@Duncan Riley:&lt;/strong&gt; This was the first time I&#039;d explored Google Trends for Websites, and since it uses a different methodology I genuinely believed I was seeing results caused by that difference in methodology.

Well, in a sense I was! Just not the way I&#039;d imagined... :)

Of course as you know, Sir, every traffic analysis tool is an estimate based on various assumptions. Sometimes people choose a particular tool &#039;cos the reports look prettier, or it&#039;s marketed better, or the results are more flattering.

This website, for example, has had either 16,306 unique visitors this month, or 61,490 or 7,036 -- depending on whether I prefer AWStats or analog or Google Analytics. What&#039;s a boy to believe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@glengyron:</strong> As long as the bullshit is expressed as a number, and preferably a number that&#8217;s bigger for you than for your competitors, it doesn&#8217;t really matter what the number is nor how it was generated.</p>
<p>See also in <em>mUmBRELLA</em> today, <a href="http://mumbrella.com.au/in-the-punch-vs-national-times-debate-the-missing-metric-is-personality-12700">In <em>The Punch</em> vs <em>National Times</em> debate, the missing metric is personality</a>.</p>
<p><strong>@Paul:</strong> Hah! Yes, the stats provided by ninemsn showed who as the topmost line on the chart? ninemsn of course.</p>
<p>Still, my critics have been relatively gracious. I won&#8217;t pick on them too much.</p>
<p><strong>@Duncan Riley:</strong> This was the first time I&#8217;d explored Google Trends for Websites, and since it uses a different methodology I genuinely believed I was seeing results caused by that difference in methodology.</p>
<p>Well, in a sense I was! Just not the way I&#8217;d imagined&#8230; <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Of course as you know, Sir, every traffic analysis tool is an estimate based on various assumptions. Sometimes people choose a particular tool &#8216;cos the reports look prettier, or it&#8217;s marketed better, or the results are more flattering.</p>
<p>This website, for example, has had either 16,306 unique visitors this month, or 61,490 or 7,036 &#8212; depending on whether I prefer AWStats or analog or Google Analytics. What&#8217;s a boy to believe?</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Riley</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30953</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30953</guid>
		<description>Of all the publicly available online stats to use, Google Trends Websites (vs Google Trends search)  is the worst: it has little to no relationship with actual stats, and I&#039;m not even sure why they offer it. They say we do 10k a day....mmm, where have I heard someone working for Crikey claim that we don&#039;t make any money and don&#039;t count before? ;-)

At worse case, use Alexa: I know they&#039;re not particularly accurate, but it&#039;s a good way to get long term trend data (which shows these sites being mostly flat) http://skitch.com/duncanriley/njfbc/news.com.au-site-info-from-alexa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of all the publicly available online stats to use, Google Trends Websites (vs Google Trends search)  is the worst: it has little to no relationship with actual stats, and I&#8217;m not even sure why they offer it. They say we do 10k a day&#8230;.mmm, where have I heard someone working for Crikey claim that we don&#8217;t make any money and don&#8217;t count before? <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>At worse case, use Alexa: I know they&#8217;re not particularly accurate, but it&#8217;s a good way to get long term trend data (which shows these sites being mostly flat) <a href="http://skitch.com/duncanriley/njfbc/news.com.au-site-info-from-alexa" >http://skitch.com/duncanriley/njfbc/news.com.au-site-info-from-alexa</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30952</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30952</guid>
		<description>&quot;All communication is propaganda.&quot; Head of news, sport and media at nine.msn, heh. Hmm, what&#039;s that quote about statistics again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All communication is propaganda.&#8221; Head of news, sport and media at nine.msn, heh. Hmm, what&#8217;s that quote about statistics again?</p>
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		<title>By: glengyron</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/has-google-trends-data-made-me-look-a-goose/#comment-30951</link>
		<dc:creator>glengyron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=5827#comment-30951</guid>
		<description>One thing is certainly clear: There&#039;s a lot of bullshit out there underpinning a billion dollar advertising industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing is certainly clear: There&#8217;s a lot of bullshit out there underpinning a billion dollar advertising industry.</p>
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