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	<title>Comments on: Internet financial projections are bullshit</title>
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	<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/</link>
	<description>All publication is a political act. All communication is propaganda. All art is pornography. All business is personal. All hail Eris. Vive les poissons rouges sauvages!</description>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31656</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 10:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31656</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;I&#039;ve continued this conversation over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://stilgherrian.com/internet/no-stilgherrians-financial-projections-are-bullshit/&quot;&gt;No, Stilgherrian&#039;s financial projections are bullshit&lt;/a&gt;. Please comment over there.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>I&#8217;ve continued this conversation over at <a href="http://stilgherrian.com/internet/no-stilgherrians-financial-projections-are-bullshit/">No, Stilgherrian&#8217;s financial projections are bullshit</a>. Please comment over there.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Bob Bain</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31655</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Bain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31655</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a more comprehensive review

http://investor.google.com/releases/2009Q4_google_earnings.html

Net profit up fivefold ?

well, sorta but there is a line for the previous year

Impairment of equity investments     (1,094,757)   $1,094,757,000

which seemingly had a major effect in 2008

Add this back to the stated profit and then work out the increase in net profit - about 40% by my reckoning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a more comprehensive review</p>
<p><a href="http://investor.google.com/releases/2009Q4_google_earnings.html" >http://investor.google.com/releases/2009Q4_google_earnings.html</a></p>
<p>Net profit up fivefold ?</p>
<p>well, sorta but there is a line for the previous year</p>
<p>Impairment of equity investments     (1,094,757)   $1,094,757,000</p>
<p>which seemingly had a major effect in 2008</p>
<p>Add this back to the stated profit and then work out the increase in net profit &#8211; about 40% by my reckoning.</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31651</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 04:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31651</guid>
		<description>OK, so &lt;a href=&quot;http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article6997860.ece&quot;&gt;Google&#039;s quarterly revenue growth for Q4 2009 was 17%&lt;/a&gt;, and net profit was up fivefold. I was wrong.

Expectations must&#039;ve been higher, though, &#039;cos shares initially dropped 5%.

It&#039;s been a hectic day. That&#039;s all I&#039;ll add for now. More later, including responses to comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so <a href="http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article6997860.ece">Google&#8217;s quarterly revenue growth for Q4 2009 was 17%</a>, and net profit was up fivefold. I was wrong.</p>
<p>Expectations must&#8217;ve been higher, though, &#8216;cos shares initially dropped 5%.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been a hectic day. That&#8217;s all I&#8217;ll add for now. More later, including responses to comments.</p>
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		<title>By: franksting</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31650</link>
		<dc:creator>franksting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31650</guid>
		<description>Oh dear, looks like Sillicon Valley UNDER ESTIMATED Googles Q4. While I agree with your point, sir, I think you&#039;ll find there is more to Estimating future performance than drawing straight lines ;) I&#039;m sure Sillicon Alley also looked at the actual revenues over time, Googles reported forecast earnings and have some real time stats on what is happening in their market. If we only looked to the past to determine the future, DELL would still be kicking massive goals and Windows Mobile would be our Handset OS of choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear, looks like Sillicon Valley UNDER ESTIMATED Googles Q4. While I agree with your point, sir, I think you&#8217;ll find there is more to Estimating future performance than drawing straight lines <img src='http://stilgherrian.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;m sure Sillicon Alley also looked at the actual revenues over time, Googles reported forecast earnings and have some real time stats on what is happening in their market. If we only looked to the past to determine the future, DELL would still be kicking massive goals and Windows Mobile would be our Handset OS of choice.</p>
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		<title>By: shep</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31649</link>
		<dc:creator>shep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31649</guid>
		<description>Google&#039;s 2009 fourth-quarter revenue totalled $6.67 billion, a 17 percent increase. 

Looks like they did better even than the Silicon Alley Insider predicted</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google&#8217;s 2009 fourth-quarter revenue totalled $6.67 billion, a 17 percent increase. </p>
<p>Looks like they did better even than the Silicon Alley Insider predicted</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastiaan</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31647</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31647</guid>
		<description>Ive always been ambivalent about charting alone as an indicator. Google&#039;s management is stable but their marketplace is maturing. The rate of innovative products is slowing, please dont tell me that yet another phone convergence device is innovation. The rate of profit growth is directly related to innovation. They need new paradigm changing products to maintain the explosive growth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ive always been ambivalent about charting alone as an indicator. Google&#8217;s management is stable but their marketplace is maturing. The rate of innovative products is slowing, please dont tell me that yet another phone convergence device is innovation. The rate of profit growth is directly related to innovation. They need new paradigm changing products to maintain the explosive growth.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Barry</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31646</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31646</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Bob Bain:&lt;/strong&gt; you lost me a bit towards the end there but to address your initial thoughts:

- rates of change are as volatile as the underlying value

- values starting off a low base tend to exhibit initial high rates of change diminishing in the fashion of a log function

&lt;strong&gt;@Stilgherrian:&lt;/strong&gt; I&#039;d back a horse, ahem, results more in line with Citi for the next couple of quarters due to GFC-recovery factors. However the longer term trend will be more likely stabilisation at low levels, organic growth not driven by major technology or mindset shifts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Bob Bain:</strong> you lost me a bit towards the end there but to address your initial thoughts:</p>
<p>- rates of change are as volatile as the underlying value</p>
<p>- values starting off a low base tend to exhibit initial high rates of change diminishing in the fashion of a log function</p>
<p><strong>@Stilgherrian:</strong> I&#8217;d back a horse, ahem, results more in line with Citi for the next couple of quarters due to GFC-recovery factors. However the longer term trend will be more likely stabilisation at low levels, organic growth not driven by major technology or mindset shifts.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Bain</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31643</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Bain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31643</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t a chart based on revenue growth dealing with rates of change and isn&#039;t it the case that mathematicians use calculus when dealing with rates of change ?

This doesn&#039;t appear to be a chart depicting revenue - but a chart depicting the rate at which revenue is changing (a rate of change).

I would anticipate that a chart of &quot;revenue by period&quot; would be much flatter than this chart (which deals with rates of change).

I spent quite a few months studying Technical Analyis as part of a Graduate Diploma of Applied Finance.  Unfortunately I failed because I misread the wording of the exam paper which stated that the hypothetical investor was &quot;long&quot; in the investment being discussed wheras my assumption was that the investor was &quot;short&quot;.  The exam paper asked me to offer advice to the investor based on several months of trading figures expressed as a graph.  Whether the investor was long or short in the stock was crucial to any advice given with respect to buy or sell decisions the next day.  (BTW:  I passed a similar test from the safety of my own home but there I had time to read the question -sigh ! )

The most fundamental point I can raise is that nobody can predict the future based on the past - even though those accutely attuned to charting techniques (Technical Analysis) often base buy and sell decisions based on minute by minute trading figures.

I would suggest the graph is misleading given that it appears to relate to rates of change with regards to revenue rather than revenue itself.

There is a book that used to be on the market &quot;How to lie with Statistics&quot; and if you can get hold of it I would recommend it.

I don&#039;t trust a Stilgherrian straight line.  I believe Charles Dow (Dow Theory and all that stuff) would also frown on it if he were alive today.  I hasten to add there are things referred to as momentum indicators, oscillators and head and shoulder formations in the highly subjective study of graphs.

Here&#039;s a quick tutorial http://www.investopedia.com/university/technical/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t a chart based on revenue growth dealing with rates of change and isn&#8217;t it the case that mathematicians use calculus when dealing with rates of change ?</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t appear to be a chart depicting revenue &#8211; but a chart depicting the rate at which revenue is changing (a rate of change).</p>
<p>I would anticipate that a chart of &#8220;revenue by period&#8221; would be much flatter than this chart (which deals with rates of change).</p>
<p>I spent quite a few months studying Technical Analyis as part of a Graduate Diploma of Applied Finance.  Unfortunately I failed because I misread the wording of the exam paper which stated that the hypothetical investor was &#8220;long&#8221; in the investment being discussed wheras my assumption was that the investor was &#8220;short&#8221;.  The exam paper asked me to offer advice to the investor based on several months of trading figures expressed as a graph.  Whether the investor was long or short in the stock was crucial to any advice given with respect to buy or sell decisions the next day.  (BTW:  I passed a similar test from the safety of my own home but there I had time to read the question -sigh ! )</p>
<p>The most fundamental point I can raise is that nobody can predict the future based on the past &#8211; even though those accutely attuned to charting techniques (Technical Analysis) often base buy and sell decisions based on minute by minute trading figures.</p>
<p>I would suggest the graph is misleading given that it appears to relate to rates of change with regards to revenue rather than revenue itself.</p>
<p>There is a book that used to be on the market &#8220;How to lie with Statistics&#8221; and if you can get hold of it I would recommend it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t trust a Stilgherrian straight line.  I believe Charles Dow (Dow Theory and all that stuff) would also frown on it if he were alive today.  I hasten to add there are things referred to as momentum indicators, oscillators and head and shoulder formations in the highly subjective study of graphs.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a quick tutorial <a href="http://www.investopedia.com/university/technical/" >http://www.investopedia.com/university/technical/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Riley</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31641</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 03:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31641</guid>
		<description>@simon rumble

Sure, the recession of 09 hit them, but the trend is a lot longer than 09 alone. Strong economy or not doesn&#039;t change the overall trend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@simon rumble</p>
<p>Sure, the recession of 09 hit them, but the trend is a lot longer than 09 alone. Strong economy or not doesn&#8217;t change the overall trend</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31640</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31640</guid>
		<description>There needs to be a website dedicated to charts drawn by analysts and the actual reality a few quarters down the line. I asked an economist if they ever go back and check if their predictions are right, he said they didn&#039;t. Awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There needs to be a website dedicated to charts drawn by analysts and the actual reality a few quarters down the line. I asked an economist if they ever go back and check if their predictions are right, he said they didn&#8217;t. Awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Stanley Devia</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31639</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Devia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31639</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in agreement with you, Stilgherrian.  I&#039;m willing to bet 1000 Internet Reputations that the next three quarters will be closer to 0% Y/Y growth than &quot;double-digits&quot;.  We shall see tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in agreement with you, Stilgherrian.  I&#8217;m willing to bet 1000 Internet Reputations that the next three quarters will be closer to 0% Y/Y growth than &#8220;double-digits&#8221;.  We shall see tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31638</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31638</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Simon Rumble:&lt;/strong&gt; We shall see. I&#039;ve just set a note-to-self to check Google&#039;s revenue figures each quarter for the next... well, until I get sick of being embarrassed for being so wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Simon Rumble:</strong> We shall see. I&#8217;ve just set a note-to-self to check Google&#8217;s revenue figures each quarter for the next&#8230; well, until I get sick of being embarrassed for being so wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Rumble</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/internet/internet-financial-projections-are-bullshit/#comment-31637</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Rumble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=6108#comment-31637</guid>
		<description>Actually I think if you re-visit this in July or so, you could well find that Citi was closer than you.  Economy picking up etc etc.

Thing is, the insights from these kinds of &quot;analyst&quot; are more akin to racing tips than anything based on hard data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I think if you re-visit this in July or so, you could well find that Citi was closer than you.  Economy picking up etc etc.</p>
<p>Thing is, the insights from these kinds of &#8220;analyst&#8221; are more akin to racing tips than anything based on hard data.</p>
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