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	<title>Comments on: Live Blog: The Tangled Web in Sydney</title>
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	<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/</link>
	<description>All publication is a political act. All communication is propaganda. All art is pornography. All business is personal. All hail Eris. Vive les poissons rouges sauvages!</description>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19952</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19952</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Panda:&lt;/strong&gt; Well, Australia&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Freedom of Information Act&lt;/em&gt; was specifically amended so the ACMA blacklist is &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; available for scrutiny. That&#039;s one of the key objections. &lt;em&gt;Secret&lt;/em&gt; government censorship? Ahem! It&#039;s only become an issue under the Rudd government now that the blacklist is actually going to be &lt;em&gt;used&lt;/em&gt; for something -- and compulsory at that! -- rather than being an optional component of Internet filters used by a very small minority.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/bluntinstrument/archives/2008/01/penchant_for_po.html&quot;&gt;John Birmingham got it right&lt;/a&gt; over a year ago:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If parents are going to plug their kids into the net it is the parents&#039; responsibility to look after the little darlings while they&#039;re online. You wouldn&#039;t set a small child loose in the city and expect the government to step in and do your child-minding for you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh, and I think you mean EFA (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.efa.org.au&quot;&gt;Electronic Frontiers Australia&lt;/a&gt;), not their US equivalent and inspiration EFF (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eff.org&quot;&gt;Electronic Frontiers Foundation&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Panda:</strong> Well, Australia&#8217;s <em>Freedom of Information Act</em> was specifically amended so the ACMA blacklist is <em>not</em> available for scrutiny. That&#8217;s one of the key objections. <em>Secret</em> government censorship? Ahem! It&#8217;s only become an issue under the Rudd government now that the blacklist is actually going to be <em>used</em> for something &#8212; and compulsory at that! &#8212; rather than being an optional component of Internet filters used by a very small minority.</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/bluntinstrument/archives/2008/01/penchant_for_po.html">John Birmingham got it right</a> over a year ago:</p>
<blockquote><p>If parents are going to plug their kids into the net it is the parents&#8217; responsibility to look after the little darlings while they&#8217;re online. You wouldn&#8217;t set a small child loose in the city and expect the government to step in and do your child-minding for you.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh, and I think you mean EFA (<a href="http://www.efa.org.au">Electronic Frontiers Australia</a>), not their US equivalent and inspiration EFF (<a href="http://www.eff.org">Electronic Frontiers Foundation</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Seminar on Aussie &#8216;net censorship-New Matilda &#171; FACT &#8211; Freedom Against Censorship Thailand</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19681</link>
		<dc:creator>Seminar on Aussie &#8216;net censorship-New Matilda &#171; FACT &#8211; Freedom Against Censorship Thailand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19681</guid>
		<description>[...] live blog of the forum can be found here. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Cuban bloggers choose freedom-NY TimesMore [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] live blog of the forum can be found here. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Cuban bloggers choose freedom-NY TimesMore [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Panda</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19643</link>
		<dc:creator>Panda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 06:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19643</guid>
		<description>The issue is quite simple in my mind.

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Will the list of banned sites be available via FOI for review by independent bodies (eg. EFF) in order to prevent misuse? If not, it&#039;s the same as book-burning. FAIL.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Will the exact guidelines be publicly available, so everyone can see &lt;em&gt;exactly&lt;/em&gt; what falls under this censorship (calling a spade a spade). If not, our rights are being wronged. FAIL.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Will it stop any kid seeing the results of the Google image search for &quot;furries&quot; (just try it).  The answer will be no -- technically impossible. But that&#039;s the internet. If you don&#039;t like it, don&#039;t let your young children use it!&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

In my mind, parents who are worried about their young children seeing stuff on the internet should &lt;em&gt;not let their kids use the internet&lt;/em&gt;.  The internet is basically &lt;em&gt;adult material&lt;/em&gt; -- I think that should be clear by now.

If we look at it like that, a lot of the arguments for censorship become moot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is quite simple in my mind.</p>
<ol>
<li>Will the list of banned sites be available via FOI for review by independent bodies (eg. EFF) in order to prevent misuse? If not, it&#8217;s the same as book-burning. FAIL.</li>
<li>Will the exact guidelines be publicly available, so everyone can see <em>exactly</em> what falls under this censorship (calling a spade a spade). If not, our rights are being wronged. FAIL.</li>
<li>Will it stop any kid seeing the results of the Google image search for &#8220;furries&#8221; (just try it).  The answer will be no &#8212; technically impossible. But that&#8217;s the internet. If you don&#8217;t like it, don&#8217;t let your young children use it!</li>
</ol>
<p>In my mind, parents who are worried about their young children seeing stuff on the internet should <em>not let their kids use the internet</em>.  The internet is basically <em>adult material</em> &#8212; I think that should be clear by now.</p>
<p>If we look at it like that, a lot of the arguments for censorship become moot.</p>
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		<title>By: PollieGraph - The More Untangled the Web Becomes…</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19488</link>
		<dc:creator>PollieGraph - The More Untangled the Web Becomes…</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 02:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19488</guid>
		<description>[...] Stilgherian&#8217;s live blog of the forum can be found here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stilgherian&#8217;s live blog of the forum can be found here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19459</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 05:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19459</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Geordie:&lt;/strong&gt; The problem I faced with the liveblog last night is that I&#039;ve been covering this issue so closely that each event now reveals little new material. Maybe someone less jaundiced needs to liveblog the next event?

There&#039;s certainly plenty of ways to deconstruct and critise the current &quot;Phase 2&quot; filtering trials -- not the least of which are that they&#039;re not random double-blind trials, that there&#039;s no independent audit or peer review, and that there are no pre-set criteria for success.

It really does seem to be a case of &quot;Hey, just try something and tell us what happened.&quot; Senator Conroy&#039;s office can then just cherry-pick whatever numbers they find politically palatable and bury the rest.

In other words, the Rudd government&#039;s claim to be using &quot;evidence-based policy&quot; is sadly just another cynical exercise in spin. They seem completely uninterested in using the established scientific, academic and forensic techniques for gathering and evaluating valid evidence. Pricks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Geordie:</strong> The problem I faced with the liveblog last night is that I&#8217;ve been covering this issue so closely that each event now reveals little new material. Maybe someone less jaundiced needs to liveblog the next event?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s certainly plenty of ways to deconstruct and critise the current &#8220;Phase 2&#8243; filtering trials &#8212; not the least of which are that they&#8217;re not random double-blind trials, that there&#8217;s no independent audit or peer review, and that there are no pre-set criteria for success.</p>
<p>It really does seem to be a case of &#8220;Hey, just try something and tell us what happened.&#8221; Senator Conroy&#8217;s office can then just cherry-pick whatever numbers they find politically palatable and bury the rest.</p>
<p>In other words, the Rudd government&#8217;s claim to be using &#8220;evidence-based policy&#8221; is sadly just another cynical exercise in spin. They seem completely uninterested in using the established scientific, academic and forensic techniques for gathering and evaluating valid evidence. Pricks.</p>
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		<title>By: Geordie</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19449</link>
		<dc:creator>Geordie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19449</guid>
		<description>I might need to hammer together some details about the current ISP trials.  Generally it&#039;s easy to pick when I&#039;m being rhetorical but I&#039;ll go into further detail about how absolutely ridiculous the currently underway trials are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might need to hammer together some details about the current ISP trials.  Generally it&#8217;s easy to pick when I&#8217;m being rhetorical but I&#8217;ll go into further detail about how absolutely ridiculous the currently underway trials are.</p>
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		<title>By: clarencegirl</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19444</link>
		<dc:creator>clarencegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 20:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19444</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this live blog. Following the debate with interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this live blog. Following the debate with interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Maenad_au</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19387</link>
		<dc:creator>Maenad_au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 07:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19387</guid>
		<description>http://www.sexparty.org.au/ looks like crap in Firefox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.sexparty.org.au/" >http://www.sexparty.org.au/</a> looks like crap in Firefox.</p>
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		<title>By: PollieGraph - The Tangled Web: debate continues tonight in Sydney</title>
		<link>http://stilgherrian.com/politics/live-blog-tangled-web-sydney/#comment-19376</link>
		<dc:creator>PollieGraph - The Tangled Web: debate continues tonight in Sydney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 05:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stilgherrian.com/?p=4161#comment-19376</guid>
		<description>[...] You can follow the discussion tonight on Stilgherrian&#8217;s live blog. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can follow the discussion tonight on Stilgherrian&#8217;s live blog. [...]</p>
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