It should (perhaps) be pointed out that the Tanzania wikipedia entry features a depiction of a topless (black) woman as being representative of the culture

Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Makonde_carving_1.jpg

Maokonde carving

Next to the black topless African woman is a male depicted holding a erect penis – a symbol of fertility in this type of carving – which are quite common in the middle East, Asia and seemingly parts of Africa.

An objection based on an observation that the naked gnome is white is a form of racist sentiment that hopefully we are attempting to eradicate.

CONCLUSION: NAKED GNOME STAYS !! …. and travels to Africa with the missionary
(Australian customs permission no doubt required – especially on return to Australia as it could be a prohibited import or subjec to quarrantine restrictions – Australian customs are prone to remove skins from African drums for instance)

I’m ambivalent about Gnaomi’s bare breasts. I guess the issue with her and with all women, is whether she wants to reveal her breasts or not. Since she’s a garden gnome, we’re not really going to know that.

OTOH, offense is always in the eye of the beholder. If there are people who are offended by the sight of breasts displayed for non-utilitarian purposes, then it seems respectful for Gnaomi to cover up. (If the breasts are being used for feeding a child, then I think that’s a different issue). Besides, I suspect she might be getting cold. The physical evidence seems to point that way.

If you so decide, I’ll volunteer to make her an appropriate garment.

I’d much rather Gnaomi topless than Stil.

It is great to see that Bob may yet be swayed, and that this discussion has been given due weight.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with women showing their breasts if it is relevant — Tanzanian women in a traditional setting, on the beach in Brazil, breast feeding (anywhere!) etc.

I’ve not yet been in any office where women are topless. — in Dar Es Salaam, rural Tanzania, Papua New Guinea, Melbourne, New York, Copenhagen or Sydney. There was that ‘Weather Channel’ in the US, but that is a whole other discussion… For me, it is all about the relevance of the situation. If, for example, this is not what Gnaomi would do in her day to day life or it is not an accurate depiction of what other women in a similar situation would do, then it points to nothing other than the objectification and sexualisation of women and their breasts for the viewer. Again, NOT ok…

This is not about Islam nor about ‘Developed’ versus ‘Developing’ — it is about relevance. And a naked Gnaomi is nothing but gratuitous.

Clothe the Gnome!

PS: When women are treated like objects that are good for one thing only, this sort of thing happens: http://www.actionaid.org.uk/101756/hate_crimes_the_rise_of_corrective_rape_in_south_africa.html

The “Naked Gnome Dance” in the World of Warcraft has definite pelvic thrust and possibly objectionable language (parental supervision recommended).

http://www.wegame.com/watch/naked_gnome_dance/

Much like some other gnomes, there’s a glaring logical leap here that nobody’s explaining. Phase one: topless gnome. Phase two: ???? Phase three: rape.

Those who would argue phase two is ‘objectification of women’ need to demonstrate how a topless garden gnome is sexually stimulating or casts women as sexual objects. With a straight face.

Archie seems a lot more interested in harumphing, propaganda and throwing his weight around than making a logical argument.

You haven’t even got on the plane, Stil, and they’re already PRing you to death.

Welcome to the dark side.

I was using the examples from our work to demonstrate that a loss of dignity and respect for women ultimately can, and has, lead to a loss of human rights and social catastrophe in many parts of the world. If vealmince wants to twist himself/herself into some sort of logical spaghetti connecting all of this I certainly don’t want to interrupt his/her fun.

I thought I would post something on here concerning a horrible situation from Uganda where a man has been forcing his wife to breast feed puppies http://tinyurl.com/qkatkr to provide some evidence for why we fight hard on this issue. And no vealmince I’m not saying there is a thread of rational tagliatelle that links a topless gnome to this sort of crime in Uganda, what I am saying is that I reject any affront to a woman’s dignity and a lack of respect from men towards women!

Not inferring that at all Toejam… you are. Actually being some sort of moral prude is probably the last thing I would ever be accused of..if that’s what you’re trying to infer?

You’re right it is just a garden gnome with its boobs hanging out making a mockery of women so therefore why not get the damm thing off Stil’s desk?

If there’s no link, Archie, why do you keep posting links to lurid descriptions of crimes against women, as if they lend your ridiculous claim moral authority? And why do you have to insult everyone who disagrees with you? They’re just cheap and transparent rhetorical tricks that lower the tone of the debate.

It’s not that I’m in favour of disrespect for women, as you imply, it’s just that there’s no connection with poor old Gnaomi.

I don’t know if you’ve looked at many garden gnomes, but the point of them is that they’re grotesque parodies of PEOPLE. They’re supposed to be ugly and undignified. But nobody looks at a male garden gnome and says, ‘Harumph! This is offensive to more than 20% of men in US prisons who are victims of rape or forced sexual contact.’

(See, I can link to unpleasant things as well, but it doesn’t prove or disprove my argument.)

I have a lot of respect for ActionAid’s work, but you’re not doing your image any favours with all this bluster and bullying over something so completely inconsequential.

No insults or implications veal mince. I’m simply noting your ability to twist yourself into knots by your use of overly emotive lines such as my “ridiculous claim to moral authority” which is interesting as I have no moral authority whatsoever. I’m just presenting a point of view on the importance of dignity and respect and you happen to disagree with my stance on the gnome..so what’s the problem?

I’m not actually in this to build any image. I am who I am, I believe in what I believe in based on my experiences working with people who are poor on four continents over the last 15 years and that’s that.

Archie, at least we agree you have no moral authority whatsoever, but you’re still trying to claim one. And that’s not just me getting tangled into logical linguine.

When you say ‘You need to get rid of the gnome because RAPE RAPE RAPE DOG BREASTFEEDING!’ (ew), you are using the very serious and terrible issue of rape to lend credibility (moral authority, if you like) to your opinion that a garden gnome might be offensive to some women. Even though, by your own admission, there’s no connection. Because it’s easier, and for some people more persuasive, than arguing for removing the gnome based on your opinion alone.

And given you’re paying for Stilgherrian’s ticket etc, aren’t you in a position of considerable power, or at least influence? So when you say things like “Bad news Stil the gnome has to go” and “you need to remove the gnome!”, is this merely expressing an opinion, or being a bully and trying to censor? There is an implied threat, no?

There’s a difference between expressing your opinion and using propaganda and power to get your way. As head of an organisation that works to help the poor and powerless, you should be very careful about crossing that line.

So far, tits are winning this debate.

Ummm, where’s Stil in all this? It’s his thoughts I’m most interested in right now…

Good luck Stil. this sounds like it will be an exciting mission. though we dont want to get too caught up in the historical implications of ‘mission’ i guess.

show those natives how to BLOG! (though i do think there are already a few bloggers in TZ. this link may be good local contact http://www.tanzaniagateway.org/civilsociety/