The 9pm AUKUS and the Echidna with Sam Roggeveen

A middle-aged white bloke wears a black jacket and t-shirt and, with arms folded, looks straight into the camera. An inset shows a book cover reading: “The Echidna Strategy: Australia’s Search for Power and Peace by Sam Roggeveen”. And it has a picture of an echidna.
Sam Roggeveen (Photo: Petri Kurkaa). Inset: The cover of The Echidna Strategy. (Image: Black Inc Books)

Any moment now, Donald Trump might cancel AUKUS, the massive defence agreement which among other things would see Australia buying eight nuclear-powered submarines. AUKUS has become the big thing in Australia’s defence procurement, but do we need it? Sam Roggeveen thinks not, and he’s our guest today.

Sam is director of the Lowy Institute’s International Security Program. In former life he was an intelligence analyst for the Office of National Assessments, now the Office of National Assessments. And he’s the author of The Echidna Strategy: Australia’s Search for Power and Peace.

In this episode we discuss the two competing schools of thought on defence policy, the defence of Australia school versus the forward defence school. We talk about what the actual threats from China might be. We look at what the echidna strategy might look like in practice. And much more.

This podcast is available on Amazon MusicApple PodcastsCastboxDeezer, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, JioSaavn, Pocket Casts, Podcast Addict, Podchaser, Spotify, and Speaker.

You can also subscribe to the generic podcast feed.

Episode Links

If the links aren’t showing up, try here.

Thank you, Media Freedom Citizenry

The 9pm Edict is supported by the generosity of its listeners. You can always throw a few coins into the tip jar or subscribe for special benefits. Please consider.

For this episode it’s thanks again to everyone who supported The 9pm Mid-2025 Series crowdfunding campaign.

CONVERSATION TOPICS: Joanna Forbes, Peter Viertel, and one person who chooses to remain anonymous.

THREE TRIGGER WORDS: Bernard Walsh, Paul Williams, and Peter Lieverdink.

WE WILL, WE WILL JUDGE YOU, part of Another Untitled Music Podcast: Bic Smith, Gavin Costello, stabfish, and one person who chooses to remain anonymous.

ONE TRIGGER WORD: Andrew Best, Ashley Walsh, Bic Smith, David Porteous, Frank Filippone, Jamie Morrison, Jim Campbell, Kym Yeap, Mark Newton, Michael, Mindy Johnson, Miriam Faye, Nicole Coombe, Oliver Townshend, Peter Blakeley, Peter McCrudden, Peter Wickins, Ric Hayman, Stephen Collins, Tom Carding, and one person who chooses to remain anonymous.

PERSONALISED VIDEO MESSAGE: Briala Bowmer.

PERSONALISED AUDIO MESSAGE: Kimberley Heitman, KO Hall, and Matt Arkell.

FOOT SOLDIERS FOR MEDIA FREEDOM who gave a SLIGHTLY LESS BASIC TIP: Andrew B, Craig Askings, Errol Cavit, James Henstridge, Lindsay, Lucas James, Peter Blakeley, and one person who chooses to remain anonymous.

MEDIA FREEDOM CITIZENS who contributed a BASIC TIP: None this time, which is curious.

And another seven people who chose to have no reward at all, even though some of them were the most generous of all. Thank you all so much. You know who you are.

Series Credits